drew griffin, cnn, north lake anna, virginia. and be sure to watch a cnn film "pandora's promise" that airs tomorrow night here at 9:00 p.m. eastern, only on cnn. that's it for me. thanks for watching, i'm wolf blitzer in washington, "crossfire" starts right now. there is no excuse for what has been. on the left van jonesings on the right newt gingrich. bernie sander, an obama care supporter, and david vitter, one of his harshest critics. fixes obama care or playing
politics. welcome to "crossfire" i'm newt gingrich on the right. >> i'm van jones on the left. two u.s. senators, bernie sanders who supports obama care and david vitter who does not. tonight republicans are jumping up and down, they're so happy, saying obama care is terrible. if you look at the actual election results, you will see a much different story. new jersey governor chris christie embraced obama care's medicaid expansion, and he won. virginia governor-elect terry mcauliffe was in a close race. he embraced obama care. he won. the gigt who spend the whole time fighting obama care, lost. there's no wonder that the president is in texas tonight arguing giving millions of people access to health insurance is a good idea. >> you have a wonderful fantasy
life. second, in virginia, two weeks ago terry mcauliffe was up 13 points and cuccinelli turned on the obama care issue, and he cut that lead to under three points in less than two weeks. so i would think if i were a democrat, i would be a little worried. if you look at the democratic senators up for reelection, they're not behave. in the "crossfire", senator bernie sanders, a verm independence, and republican senator david vitter, who opposes obam-bama care. a number of senators went down to the white house, and have begin to ask the president to -- to draw things out, to open up the bill, to reconsider certain
things. do you think that given the problems we're having with the website, the problems with implementation, that it is legitimate to say that some modification has to be made, because the schedule is simply not going to be met. >> look, over a period of time it's always good to improve. while i voted for the affordable care act, let me be very clear. from the beginning i had disagreements with it. single payer medicare. i believe that the united states should joint the rest of the industrialized world and guarantee medicare. i worry very much that at the end of the day, despite the fact that we have 48 million people today with no health insurance, we end up spending almost twice as much per person on health care. without particularly good health care outcomes. so my own feeling is we started off with a bad situation, the
afford kabul care act takes us a step forward. >> let me ask you something i just noticed yesterday, which involves medicare, and that the moffett cancer center, the premier center in florida, is being dropped by unitedhealth on the medicare wraparound provisions because of the budget problems. the questions i would raise is aren't we see a drift away from centers of excellence, as the various programs one low with money, and i think eel sigh they have all they packages that you can't go to the mayo clinic or md anderson, because the centers are excellence are more expensive and therefore don't fit into government-run health care? >> i think you're touching a broader issue about our spending priorities. i happen to believe that investing in research and development trying to understand and get a better handle on
cancer, alzheimer's, is a good investment for our country. so i would invest more into these programs and into the nih. i'm not sure that my republican friends agree, but that's what i would do. >> let me go to you. i assume you are not a single payer advocate itches that's a safe assumption. >> i would assume up the private health insures to do the job, right? there have been records say the insurance companies are actually abusing people, blaming obama care, but senting out notices that are false and misleading. basically abusing the law. would you -- >> if those abuses are happening, absolutely we should stop them, but that's not the biggest set of cases out there. the biggest set of cases are the 93,000 folks in louisiana that have gotten truthful legitimate notices that they're being kicked off the health plan they had. that goes to the biggest lie of the whole obama care debate, the
president said over and over and over, if you like the health care plan, you can keep it, that's not true, it was never true, and there are 93,000 of my constituents who are getting that note in the mail today. >> and this has been a great talking point day after day, but here's what i don't understand. >> i don't care about reply tal talking points. >> that's the reality. >> but here as the problem. you now have that these insurance companies are actually -- could be a large percentage of those people who are being mistreated. what you you doing to make them honor -- >> if anybody ace lying about what's going on, they should be prosecuted criminally, but i guarantee the vast majority of those 93,000 cases are cases proceeded by the core of obama care. again, it goes to the biggest lie of the whole debate.
>> it seems to me people were being thrown off of insurance program and plans for a very long time. in fact we had a situation where that was happening so reg alreadily that people were up in arms about it. i didn't hear you or anybody in the republican party being concerned. is there an inconsistency to throw it off for corporate greed, how does that make sense? >> look, we had plenty of solutions put forward from the conservative side. >> one of them -- -- >> no, not from me. absolutely not, never. targeted fixes that could have made a difference, but throwing out the whole sim, the baby with the bat water is not the way to do it. these 93,000 are a perfect example. that's not a glitch with the roll-out. that's the core of the obama care law. i think we're moving to that phase 2 now of folks realizing
the problems 789. >> you have a great state. it's a beautiful state, but 20% of your people live in poverty, about 20% of the people in louisiana have no health insurance at all. when you vote against the affordable care act, what you're telling thole people is they're not getting health insurance. >> absolutely not, bernie. >> let me finish. >> as you well know, your state has rejected the yesterday that medicaid should be expanded. so it seems to me that when you have people working really hard trying to make the living who desperately need health insurance, and -- and you and others are saying, oh no-no, it's okay, not to take it, i think that's wrong. >> bernie, the biggest reason those folks are uninsured is cost. cost is going up, and it's going up even further. i think the first max maxim of
health care reform is if you think it's expensive now, wail unit it's finished. >> this is a federal program which costs zero dollars. so you're telling something in your stay who can finally get health care that this can't afford i.e.? >> it doesn't cause zero dollars to society and not to the state of louisiana. >> it sure does, for the first thee years. >> not a civic cost -- >> bernie let me explain louisiana budgets. we've cutting health care for four years and you want to put an additional cost -- >> david what i want to do for louisiana -- in vermont and all over this country, i want people to have health care. i would be concerned -- >> absolutely. >> and you have obama care is not leaning in that direction.
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have members of congress and their staff, as well as presidential appointees and the white house staff, buy health insurance from the obama care exchanges without extra subsidies. after all, what's good enough for ordinary voters ought to be good enough for the people wo represent them in washington. senator sanders, given year really in many ways pop you list background, isn't it fair to say of self-employed professionals, small businesses and areas who are forced into these exchanges, they get an income-based subsidy, that having the congress and other deciding makers in washington treated the same would be a form of equity in. >> i think what's -- is to treat federal employees every oat way major corporations treat their employees. if you're at motor vehicle roe soft or i want bm, they pay a significant part of your health care costs. it's called an employer contribution. federal government has always done that, and i think it
should. to say to an employee, i know it's good politics, we can beat up on the -- it's a good sound bite, but the reality is we have people working, make $30,000, $40,000 and to say no, you have to pay 100% your health care unlike other people in -- i it's it's dead wrong, and it sets a really bad example for the rest of corporate american. you say, you know what? what the federal government is doing. they're not providing any employer-based -- bad idea. >> bernie, let's forget about politics. let's start with the law. the obama care statute mandates this. this isn't my original idea. it's in the statute that every member of congress and all officials staff go to the exchange, and there is no american whatsoever with this huge taxpayer-funded subsidy. guess what? that language was there, it was
specifically not included. and no other american gets this huge taxpayer-funded -- that's just flat-out wrong. >> every employees of a large corporation -- >> no american going to the exchange gets this huge subsidy. you get a subsidy based on income. the whole point of this provision, which is in the statute -- this isn't just my idea, it's law -- the whole point of this provision is congress should face same reality and same experience as 8 million-plus americans forced against their will into the exchange. >> i just think this is terrible. >> well, change the statute. change the law, because that's where it is. i want to expand it to the administration -- >> i'm sorry. go ahead. >> i do want to expand it to the administration. that's not the law now, but it is the law with regard to congress. >> well, first of all, it's been interpreted the opposite way of what you're saying. you feel that way, but others don't.
here's what i think is awful about what you're saying. you have kids who come up to washington, d.c. they could worked in corporate america, they come here, because they're a part of the give a darn party. they give a darn about their country. they work really hard for you, and for this senator, and for you to say to them that, i think for political purposes, you're going to take away their employer subsidy that every other employer is giving their employees, i think that's awful. >> again, van, we had this debate. >> what about the kids who come up here -- are you going to punish them? >> members and staff should have to eat their own cooking. i think that's important because of fairness and for a very practical reason. >> let me tell you where you're right and then where you're wrong. >> it applies the same way -- >> you are saying that's the law, many of your republican colleagues are not saying that's the law. >> bernie, read the statute. read the statute.
>> what i'm telling you is most people in the congress, including many rpg don't agree with you. >> they don't like the outcome. >> federal employees should not be treated differently from other employees in corporate america. historically, as you know, forever, the federal government has done what other large employers do, and pay -- >> bernie, as you know, i'm not talking about all federal employees. i'm talking policy makers. >> kids that's make $30,000. >> if they make $30,000, they do get a subsidy. they do get an income-based subsidy. so they would get help. >> i want to ask a practical question, because i'm confused. i thought amendments were offered that would have solved this and they were defeated. correct. the language was there and not put in the built. it was put in the bill in
contrast. >> the bill is silent with regard to this, you're right, but there's also an interpretation that goes the other way. >> and you can find a lawyer to interpret blue as green. you know that. that doesn't cover for violating and ignoring the law. >> you want this to be to have a vote on this and to get this out of the way. and you've been dem going toing it. i get one vote. how many votes does he want to have? >> if it is such a great last week, he filed a motion to reconsider on two nominations. is he never going to file a motion to reconsider? he does that twice a month. if he will forego that right as a senator, i will. >> i think david is hesitant about that. the point is, we're talking
about a few hundred people, a few thousand people. the reality is that what we are trying to do in this country and what the real issue is, 48 million people have no health insurance. the republicans, i have to say this. it is easy to criticize and god knows the criticism of obama care is valid and we should do it. but what's your plan? what are you going to do about providing health care to 48 million people who have no health insurance? let me finish. you tell me. newt, you may want to jump in. where is the republican ideas so that they can join the rest of the world. >> let me start by saying why my proposal is important. the sooner those few thousand folks walk in the same shoes as americans going to the exchange, the southeastern washington will start getting it right. and we don't do that now. >> doing nothing about 48 million people.
>> let me answer that at a couple levels that you may not like. first of all, everybody wants to focus on insurance, not on care. the fact in the british national health service, you are much more likely to die of breast cancer. more likely to die of prostate cancer. these are statistical facts. medicaid is so badly run in much of america, uninsured people have the same outcomes as medicare recipients. nobody wants to talk about how do you reform the care part of health care. there are a lot of ideas for how to solve this. john goodman has been going around the country for 15 years saying solve with it a tax credit. a lot of ways that return power to the individual. you don't have to have a washington centered system. so i think there is a certain amount -- >> i don't know the statistics about the u.k. the fact of the matter is that compared to many other countries, in terms of our health care outcome.
in terms of life expectancy, infant mortality, we're doing worse. we're spending about two and a half times per person what they are spending. >> stay here. we're not done. we're going to have a cease fire and see if there is anything in here that we can agree with each other on. we'll to have see. and we want you at home to weigh in on today's fireback question. how do you think that obama care has affected the democrats in yesterday's elections? tweet hurt or help using #crossfire. [ man ] look how beautiful it is. ♪ honey, we need to talk. we do? i took the trash out. i know. and thank you so much for that. i think we should get a medicare supplement insurance plan. right now? [ male announcer ] whether you're new to medicare or not, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. it's up to you to pay the difference. so think about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan,
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we are back with senator sanders and vitter. we're calling a ceasefire and we'll see if there is anything we can agree on. what do you think? >> there is an area we may have agreement on. one of the reasons i voted for the affordable care act is that we managed to get $12 billion new into community health centers. in my view it does a great job providing excellent primary health care, dental care, mental health counseling or low cost prescription drugs to people who need it. cost effective care, real access for the people. what do you think? >> i agree with that. in post katrina new orleans,
there are a lot of different versions of that. many more examples than we ever had before, often teamed one universities. i think it proves the point, there is no one simple answer. it will have to be a few different pieces of the puzzle coming together to provide coverage and care for a lot of different communities. >> i went down and saw a number of these in new orleans, having graduated from tulane. i was very impressed. when i was a member i would visit regularly in georgia. i think they may be the most cost effective federal health intervention we have in the entire country. >> good enough. we want to thank both of you for being here. >> thank you. >> and thank you, bernie sanders and david vitter. to go facebook or twitter to weigh in on our fireback question. how do you think obama care affected democrats in tuesday's election? >> the debate will continue. i think that's pretty close. i'm happy with that outcome.
it will continue online at cnn.com/crossfire as well as facebook and twitter. we want to congratulate you for your great new book, breakout. check it out. from the left, i'm van jones. >> from the right i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. a lousy day for obama care. >> convicted felon could be a navigator and could require sensitive personal information from an individual unbeknownst to them. >> that's possible. >> the president holds an urge edge meeting of the faithful. plus, this may sound like a compliment. >> governor christie has certainly shown a way of winning in new jersey and states like new jersey i congratulated him on that. >> it isn't. did the coach put him up to it? >> if you would have asked john